Why won't Hussein Obama release his long form birth certificate? Why has he spent, what some believe to be in excess of one million dollars ($1,000,000+), to fight releasing it?!
What could be so damaging? What could be the big deal?
Makes one wonder in light of the fact that congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a "natural born citizen."
I wonder why no controlling legal authority ever sought to verify Obama's claim to a Hawaiian birth.
As Sherlock Holmes would say, "The game is afoot" ....
Monday, October 5, 2009
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Re: "Why won't Hussein Obama release his long form birth certificate?"
ReplyDeleteBecause Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the long-form birth certificate. it only sends out the new, short-form official birth certificate of Hawaii. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)
So Obama asked Hawaii for his birth certificate, and the Certification of Live Birth is what Hawaii sent him. However, it is a legal document, proving birth in Hawaii, and it is accepted by all the departments of Hawaii as proof of birth in Hawaii (Yes including DHHL, I asked), and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the facts on it that Obama was born in Hawaii were confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html).
This is what the Wall Street Journal commented: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.
The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well."
I take exception the last part of that - "The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved."
ReplyDeleteOk, so why has he spent so much money on NOT giving it up? It would resolve the issue to the general public. SO why not do it? How about his school and college records? Why so secret? Could it be that he was listed as something other than "American" on them?
Listen, I don't really care ... either way, I know what's coming. I just think it's a little "shady" to spend so much money to stop it and to keep so much in the dark. Reveal it, let the world judge.
Don't you think that as well?
Re: "Ok, so why has he spent so much money on NOT giving it up? "
ReplyDeleteBecause you are mistaken in thinking that there has been a case, or that all the cases, that ask for the birth certificate. Remember that the cases before the election were to stop the election. They were not to make him show his birth certificate, they were to stop the election. Most of the cases after the election were to stop the confirmation of his election by Congress or to stop the Inauguration.
There are a few remaining cases, and they charge many things such as Obama having lost citizenship in Indonesia (he didn't and it is impossible for a US child to lose citizenship), and they ask for many things, including in some of them Obama's kindergarten records and his housing records while at college (Ironically, this case, Keyes v Obama, forgot to ask for financial assistance records).
So, the easy and cheap way to oppose these remaining cases is to have them thrown out. As the Wall Street Journal said: "“Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?” X varies, just in our emails of the past 24 hours, from “thousands” to “almost a million”; one reader set the amount at “$950,000.” As far as we know, all these estimates have a common source: thin air.
In any case, while this question sounds eminently reasonable, in fact it betrays a complete lack of understanding of the legal process. The “defense” against these frivolous lawsuits has consisted of filing a motion for summary judgment, which in every case has been granted.
In a motion for summary judgment, a defendant in a lawsuit asks the judge to dismiss the case as meritless before trial. In considering whether to grant such a motion, the judge is obliged to treat all facts in dispute as if they were resolved in the plaintiff’s favor. He may dismiss the case only if he finds it is without merit as a matter of law. The defendant’s introduction of additional factual evidence into the record would make the process more costly and time-consuming, not less.
The production of a 1961 birth certificate would make these lawsuits “go away” only if one assumes that it would persuade the plaintiffs to withdraw their claims, or not to file them in the first place. This assumption is completely fanciful."
You might ask yourself why someone sues for Obama's kindergarten records and college housing records if they did not want Obama to fight the lawsuit. By getting Obama to fight, they can say: “Why has Obama spent X dollars defending himself against lawsuits when he could just produce the original birth certificate and make the whole thing go away?”
And, most importantly, there has never been a lawsuit against Obama just for the birth records. Not one case.
Re: "why has he spent so much money on NOT giving it up?"
ReplyDeleteHe didn't spend money on not giving it up. The cases were not for the birth certificate. All the cases before the election (most of the cases by far so far) were to stop the election. After the election most of the cases were to stop the certification of the election or to stop the Inauguration.
The remaining cases ask for such things as Obama's kindergarten records and his housing records while he was at college. These are not cases for his birth certificate, and there has never been a case ONLY for his birth certificate.
So, he has revealed his OFFICIAL birth certificate, and in fact he was the first and so far the only US president to have done so.
Sorry for missing a post. I am still setting things up. But to start last and work my way back up....
ReplyDeleteYou are correct, the case never asked for "simply this". They asked for information that would collaborate what their position is and what the question ultimately rests on - is he eligible.
You see, the reason for the school/college records is because they want to know if he was listed as a visa student, foreign, etc... to get aid (or other benefits). Passports would show what he claimed his status was at the time.
As for the BC, the short form that seems to be accepted does not list all the information that is on the long form. Now, if it's missing information, wouldn't you want to make sure you had a copy that listed ALL information regarding your birth?
Let me ask you. Let's say you apply for your dream job. You get it, but there is a question about your eligibility to hold that job. Wouldn't you do what you needed to do to secure that job (in light of the fact that if you don't, you could lose it)? Give the BC (long form, used or not NOW, it would show), the visa's, the school records... for God's sake, we're not talking about McDonalds here... we're talking about leading a country.
Re: "You see, the reason for the school/college records is because they want to know if he was listed as a visa student, foreign, etc... to get aid (or other benefits)."
ReplyDeleteThat's what they said that they were looking for. In fact, I read the case, Keyes v Obama, and it did not ask for Obama's financial aid records. Perhaps it forgot, but it didn't.
What it did do was tell people like you that it was looking for the financial aid records. It wouldn't have gotten the financial aid records because it didn't ask for them. So what was left, the request for Obama's academic record and his housing record (and maybe the kindergarten thing, but that could have been another case). Obama opposed the case. It cannot be counted as a case for the birth certificate.
You originally wrote that Obama was spending money to keep from showing his birth certificate. This case was not for the birth certificate.
Re: "Passports would show what he claimed his status was at the time."
The case didn't ask for the passports either.
Re: "As for the BC, the short form that seems to be accepted does not list all the information that is on the long form. Now, if it's missing information, wouldn't you want to make sure you had a copy that listed ALL information regarding your birth?"
But Hawaii sends out only the short-form certification. That means that it is highly likely that the only document that Obama HAS is the short form BC. It is impossible to force him to give something that he does not have.
Hawaii has it. Sue Hawaii or change the law in Hawaii. Obama has the short-form COLB. That, however, is a legal document. It proves birth in Hawaii LEGALLY, and the facts on it were confirmed by the officials. To be sure, there is more information on the original, but Hawaii does not give it out. The official birth certificate is legally sufficient, and the facts on it have been confirmed.
Re: "Let me ask you. Let's say you apply for your dream job. You get it, but there is a question about your eligibility to hold that job. Wouldn't you do what you needed to do to secure that job (in light of the fact that if you don't, you could lose it)?"
There is only one way that a US president can lose his job before his term ends legally. Impeachment. He is not likely to be impeached for showing the OFFICIAL birth certificate of his state, especially when the state only sends out the official birth certificate and not copies of the original.
No president has ever shown his birth certificate before. No president has shown visas or passports or housing records. IF there was a smidgen of proof that Obama was born outside of the USA or lost his citizenship (which is impossible for a US child), then it would be logical to demand these records. But the Kenya story is all made up. His Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.
All of this is made up, and why should Obama show anything just because a group of opponents lie about his background?
There are those in Kenya that seem to think he was born there. Why else have a "birthplace of" site?
ReplyDeleteAt any rate, it's obvious that you are firmly stuck to the teat of Hussein Obama. I won't try to convince you of anything. Why bother? It's like trying to convince a zombie that it doesn't like to eat people, you know, try a carrot stick.
Think about this ...his choice for "green jobs", his choice for "EEOC", his choice for "student safety", his flip on "marriage", his choice for... jeez, name it... It's almost like he's trying to see what he can get away with before people wake up.
Re: "There are those in Kenya that seem to think he was born there?"
ReplyDeleteAnd there are those who are convinced the world is flat.
There is no proof that Obama was born in Kenya. There is excellent proof, in the official legal documents, confirmed by authorities, that he was born in Hawaii.
Neither his Kenyan grandmother, nor anyone else, ever said that he was born in Kenya. His Kenyan grandmother actually said that he was born in Hawaii. This can be clearly heard if you listen to the complete recording of the tape, which is on Berg’s site. The complete recording includes a question asking “Whereabouts was he born?” And her answer was: “America, Hawaii.”
Here is the complete recording on Berg’s site. Be sure to listen for at least five minutes until the question is asked. (http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3)
If it is too difficult to listen to the complete tape, here is a transcript (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf).
There have been NO official documents from Kenya (numerous forgeries, however) that say that Obama was born in Kenya, and the only organization to have claimed that there are documents “sealed” in Kenya is WND. Its reports have not been confirmed by anyone. (And it would be easy to confirm because all you have to do is to find out if there are files which area sealed). There are hundreds of journalists in Kenya, and the fact that there were sealed files would be news.
Moreover, IF a child had been born in Kenya and subsequently came to the USA, there would be US documents showing that the trip took place. That is because if a child were born in Kenya, she or he would have to have either a US visa on a British passport or be issued its own US passport while in Kenya. IF either of those took place, there would still be US records in the US embassy in Kenya and in the US State Department in Washington, and they would have been found by now, and they have NOT been found.
All the allegations of Obama’s birth abroad were checked out by the McCain campaign, and they found that there were no facts. No facts at all. (http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors)
It is strange to believe that Obama’s mother even left Hawaii during pregnancy. Pregnant women rarely traveled long distances in 1961 because of the fear of stillbirths. Moreover, in 1961, to travel to Africa required a Yellow Fever shot, which is very bad during pregnancy.
Which is why they want his passport/visas (when he traveled to the mid east), his school records (showing if he did or didn't claim a status other than American)and his birth records indicating if or if not his mother could legally transfer American citizenship (should she have been out of U.S. borders.
ReplyDeleteSimple really. Just show the paper trail. What's so hard about that? What's the problem or the big deal.... ??
Like Nike said, "Just do it". When you get off your knees, look up and ask Obama to JUST DO IT.
As far as the "world is flat" comment, you have to remember - at the time the people claiming that had good cause to think it (to them) -- UNTIL it was SHOWN to be wrong.
Apparently, these people in Kenya have good cause to think it (I wonder why?)... so, let Obama SHOW them wrong.
Anything to offer on "his" choices? I noticed you completely ignored what I wrote about that.
BTW, go to class. Get back to me later.
Re: "Just show the paper trail. What's so hard about that?"
ReplyDeleteHe has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, which was confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii, and that shows that he was born in Hawaii.
Re: "Think about this ...his choice for "green jobs", his choice for "EEOC", his choice for "student safety", his flip on "marriage", his choice for... jeez, name it... It's almost like he's trying to see what he can get away with before people wake up."
ReplyDeleteI did not discuss this because it does not relate to the issue of Obama's citizenship. Presidents do things. Some people like them. Others do not. This always happens If you like what a president does, it does not mean the president was born in the USA, and if you don't, it does not mean that he was not born in the USA.
Re prove the Kenya story wrong.
There will be a president after Obama. If it is a Republican, I will demand that he or she show the birth certificate. If it is the official birth certificate and not the original birth certificate, I will demand the original birth certificate. I will allege that the birth was in Tasmania, and I will claim that during a trip she made to Egypt to see the pyramids she became an Egyptian citizen.
And then I will say “It is up to her to prove that she wasn’t born in Tasmania and didn’t become and Egyptian citizen.”
The proof that the Republicans in the House of Representatives want to show that candidates in the next election are Natural Born Citizens, in the so-called “Birther Bill,” is simply the official birth certificate of the place where the person was born (usually a state, but in some big cities, the city). They do not ask for the original birth certificate.
Since Obama has shown the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and Hawaii sends out only the official birth certificate, which is the one that Obama showed, and since the facts on it were confirmed by the officials in Hawaii, Obama has provided legal proof of the place of his birth. There is no evidence that he was born anywhere else. His grandmother did not say that he was born in Kenya. IF he, or anyone, had been born in Kenya, there would be a US government travel document of some kind showing that the person traveled from Kenya to the USA, and that would be in the files of the US State Department, and it has not been shown. And, indeed, such things were all checked out by John McCain, and he didn’t find a shred of evidence that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii.
Go back read the puke you spewed. You can answer your own questions with a little intelligence.
ReplyDeleteThe items haven't BEEN SHOWN because Hussein refuses to show them.... and before you come back with "barf.. it's public record .. barf", remember, we haven't seen them because they are sealed for some reason. Who has access to them?! Whoever does, let them show the world.
The travel documents are being asked for. They are being held. Why!?
McCain is being a gentleman and since he still has to work there... he's playing by the rules. I mean honestly, one on one, no record of the discussion, with his record - ask him what he REALLY thinks of muslims and islam...
Forget McCain ... tell your Messiah to produce or step down. Simple as that.Produce the records that can prove or dispel these allegations. What is SO hard about that!? Quit making excuses... step up to the plate and swing, or sit back down.
But really, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the choices he's made thus far....
ReplyDelete"Former Republican House majority leader Tom DeLay says he has "no idea" whether Barack Obama is constitutionally eligible to serve as president because he refuses to show his birth certificate to the American people."
ReplyDelete???
"Well, I'd like the president to produce his birth certificate," said DeLay. "I can. Most illegal aliens here in America can. Why can't the president of the United States produce his birth certificate? ... Chris, will you do me a favor? Will you ask the president to show me his gift certificate – I mean, his birth certificate?"
ReplyDeleteSeems it's not settled YET ..... Wonder why.
And honestly, if it was REALLY settled you have to ask why ....
ReplyDelete"Obama eligibility case survives 1st court test"
On if he is or not.... quit being a lap dog. Stop licking up all the drivel the democrats and left spew onto the floor.
Think for yourself.
Re: "we haven't seen them because they are sealed for some reason."
ReplyDeleteThey are not sealed. They are private. No president has ever shown his birth certificate before. Obama did. It is the official birth certificate of Hawaii.
There is no reason to show his college records because he was never a citizen of Indonesia, as you or anyone can find out by simply calling the Indonesian embassy ((202) 775 - 5200).
There is no law that says that a person, or a president, has to release his college records. Or his travel records. Come the next election, if he doesn't, and his opponent does, you can vote against him.
There is no proof that Obama was born anywhere other than the USA. There is legal proof that he was born in the USA, which was confirmed by the two officials and by the notices in the newspapers.
It doesn't matter what the embassy says, they could claim he was. It wouldn't matter. It depends on what he put on his visa or what is contained in his college records as to what he claimed. It depends on what HE CLAIMED. That's what we want to see.
ReplyDeleteRegardless, if his citizenship has been proven... why has the court upheld the first round in questioning his citizenship? Apparently, it has not been proven.
To go back and use an analogy you brought up. Let's say that you believe the world is flat. It has been shown and proven that the world is not flat. You decide to sue for the information to prove the world is flat. The court not only denies your suit but adds that there is no proof of a flat earth. It has been shown and proven -- it is round.
Now, back to Hussein Obama. Why would a court go forward with a suit to prove eligibility if evidence has been shown and proves it? They didn't throw it out as frivolous. They didn't throw it out as already proven. They said, "hmmm... let's move this forward and see the proof".
Apparently, it has not been shown and proven. Had it been, the courts would throw the case out, would it not?
Re: "It depends on what he put on his visa or what is contained in his college records as to what he claimed."
ReplyDeleteIf Obama ever received a US visa, it would be on file at the State Department in Washington, and would have been found by now by the FBI or the McCain campaign. It would have been impossible to hide such a thing. And it would be impossible to steal it or hide it because there are multiple copies. No such document has been found. Obama used his US passport returning from Indonesia to the USA.
It is impossible for a US child to lose his citizenship. There have been multiple lawsuits on this. Only an adult can give up citizenship. Obama was a child at the time.
The Indonesian government and the US government say that he was never an Indonesian citizen.
IF Occidental or Columbia or Harvard had given him aid as a foreign student would that prove that he WAS a foreign student? NO. They have the right to give him aid as a Baptist even if he wasn't a Baptist.
Is there anything in the law that says that a president has to show his college records? No.
Re: "Had it been, the courts would throw the case out, would it not?"
The court you are referring to has not decided to go forward yet. If it does, Obamas' team would appeal that decision because the laws on who can sue date back to citizen cases brought by citizens who were trying to stop the Vietnam War, and the courts ruled that they had no standing to sue.
IF an appeals court rules that the Vietnam War precedent does not hold (figure on that taking six months), then Obama would be asked to provide his birth certificate to the court. He will show the physical copy of the document that he has put online. That is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, and the court would accept it and that would be that.
Re: "Regardless, if his citizenship has been proven... why has the court upheld the first round in questioning his citizenship? Apparently, it has not been proven."
ReplyDeleteThe court is only deciding whether to go forward with a case. It has not considered the evidence or the claims. The decision whether to go forward will be based solely on whether the plaintiffs have standing.
The court I am referring to has MOVED forward.
ReplyDeleteThey denied motions (to dismiss) by Hussein Obama's LAWYERS (LAWYERS .. the guy has LAWYERS .. just show all the info, screw the lawyers - just show the documents asked for).
I dunno. I have nothing to hide. If I had been elected to a PUBLIC office, and there were questions remaining.... whatever they asked for... give it to them. I have nothing to hide. The heck with it. I'm in a PUBLIC office, privacy was thrown out the window around the same time I ran for a PUBLIC office.
Anywho, the court did not throw it out. The court moved forward with the suit/case. Hussein Obama's lawyers FOUGHT that motion and lost - it moved forward. Do you understand that? They FOUGHT the movement forward and LOST. The court saw that they did have standing and moved forward.
"IF Occidental or Columbia or Harvard had given him aid as a foreign student would that prove that he WAS a foreign student? NO. They have the right to give him aid as a Baptist even if he wasn't a Baptist."
But THAT I think it the gist of the blanket (er.. cover-up). Like I said, regardless of what country gave him citizenship -- it matters on WHAT HE CLAIMED.
And that is my point. We all know how muslims feel. We all know what the koran teaches. Now, if he felt it was in his best interest to claim a country other than the US (and the country is a muslim country)... what was he THINKING and what makes you think he would now have OUR best interest in mind (knowing what the koran teaches)?
This man is a muslim. He has muslim principles and values... What he must do to bring our country down, he will do (LOOK at his choices of folks to place into positions of power).
Listen, I understand that you are what others have coined an "Obama-bot". But you know... I give you more credit than that.
No matter how high I have ever held another human being, I wasn't blinded enough not to see ....
Re: "They denied motions (to dismiss) by Hussein Obama's LAWYERS (LAWYERS .. the guy has LAWYERS .. just show all the info, screw the lawyers - just show the documents asked for)."
ReplyDeleteNope. That's what Orly said. The Judge has not issued a decision. He is still considering the motion to dismiss.
Re: "I have nothing to hide. If I had been elected to a PUBLIC office, and there were questions remaining.... "
ReplyDeleteMe too. If my neighbor asked me the number of roses in my garden, I would count and tell her. If she sued me and claimed that she had a right to know the number, I would fight her with all my might.
And besides, if I have already shown the number of roses in the garden, or that I I was born in Hawaii, and she claimed I hadn't, I would fight even harder.
Obama has shown the official birth certificate. No president has ever shown his birth certificate before. There is not the slightest chance that his mother went to Kenya and gave birth, and yet they sue. Why? Because they are trial lawyers and make money on the lawsuits.
If he claimed to be a foreign student, and he wasn't a foreign student, he would have committed a fraud. Occidental would be entitled to get its money back. Don't you think that Occidental has looked at the files since then just to see whether Obama claimed that he was a foreign student? Don't you think that plenty of people have looked at those files, and if one of them thought that there was anything unusual, she or he would call the McCain campaign or the FBI?
Now, IF Obama had claimed to be an Indonesian and he wasn't an Indonesia, that would be a fraud. But it wouldn't make him an Indonesian. In order for him to really be an Indonesian, there has to be proof from Indonesia, which denies that he ever was. So, if Occidental thought he was an Indonesian, that doesn't make him one. If Occidental granted him foreign student aid, that doesn't make him a foreign student. If Obama claimed to be a foreign student, that doesn't make him a foreign student, and, guess what, none of these "ifs" matter because he wasn't a foreign student. Both Indonesia and the US State Department have said so.
Re: "f I had been elected to a PUBLIC office, and there were questions remaining.... whatever they asked for... give it to them. "
Like George Bush did on his files on his experiences in the National Guard? Like Nixon in recordings?
That is why they are suing for Kindergarten records, because they know that Obama will fight it, and then they will say
what is he trying to hide?" Same thing on his academic record. Obama graduated from Harvard Law Magna Com Laude. His grades were probably pretty good (maybe not great but pretty good) at Occidental, but he doesn't have to show them. If he were forced to show them, other presidents would be forced to show theirs. So, in the next election campaign, if his opponent shows his complete college transcript, Obama will too.
Re: "And besides, if I have already shown the number of roses in the garden, or that I I was born in Hawaii, and she claimed I hadn't, I would fight even harder."
ReplyDeleteAnd you think the President of the United States should play a bit of "tit for tat", correct?
Re: Obama has shown the official birth certificate. No president has ever shown his birth certificate before. There is not the slightest chance that his mother went to Kenya and gave birth, and yet they sue. Why? Because they are trial lawyers and make money on the lawsuits."
Well, it seems to me that BHO could save a lot of tax payer money (ie: he's not using his money) and stop paying his lawyers to fight it all and simply show the documents, don't you think? Come to think about it, BHO could have saved the tax payers upwards of one-million-four-hundred-thousand dollars (and continuing to grow) right off the bat by showing the documents. But I digress, as I state below, the official "certificate of live birth" is not the same thing as an official "birth certificate".
Re: "Now, IF Obama had claimed to be an Indonesian and he wasn't an Indonesia ... if Occidental thought he was an Indonesian ... If Occidental granted him foreign student aid ... If Obama claimed to be a foreign student ..."
That's a lot of "if's" coming from the leader of the most powerful nation on the planet. So, let's just do away with it all and show the paperwork. But, looking at the "what if" scenario, it would make you wonder why he did or did not lie then or now, right? I suppose it's not anything new to have a dishonest President in office, correct? But, you have to look at his agenda to determine if those lies will hurt us in the long run. Anywho...
Re: "Like George Bush did on his files on his experiences in the National Guard?"
Well, to be honest with you, I spoke up and was vocal about that as well - show 'em. I wonder, did you stand up for the fight to keep them private and not have them looked into?
Re: "That is why they are suing for Kindergarten records, because they know that Obama will fight it, and then they will say
what is he trying to hide?" Same thing on his academic record. Obama graduated from Harvard Law Magna Com Laude. His grades were probably pretty good (maybe not great but pretty good) at Occidental, but he doesn't have to show them. If he were forced to show them, other presidents would be forced to show theirs."
Well, first of all, what's wrong with "full disclosure"? Especially from those who we would vote into the office of the most powerful nation on the planet? But as far as BHO goes, these records would show more than simply grades.
Re: "So, in the next election campaign, if his opponent shows his complete college transcript, Obama will too."
Did BHO tell you this? However, on that note, ask him if the others show their "birth certificate", will he? Mind you, the official "certificate of live birth" (which he will show) is different from the official "birth certificate" (which he won't show). I have a copy of the "certificate of live birth" and "birth certificate" for each of my children. Now, to show you an example of how different they are - my daughter had to bring a copy of her official "birth certificate" to show in order to sign up for driver's ed. (to get her learners permit), an official copy of her "certificate of live birth" would not be accepted.
Try this experiment - go get a passport and refuse to show your official "birth certificate", instead demand that they accept your official "certificate of live birth".
Re: "Nope. That's what Orly said. The Judge has not issued a decision. He is still considering the motion to dismiss."
Actually, the judge did deny BHO's lawyers to dismiss the case in court. True, he is considering to go forward or not, but I believe it's based more or less on the claim of being denied a fair vote/run at the Presidency.
Just for laughs, check out -
ReplyDeletehttp://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaCzars.htm
Go to the bottom and read about John O. Brennan
Re: "Try this experiment - go get a passport and refuse to show your official "birth certificate", instead demand that they accept your official "certificate of live birth".
ReplyDeleteTe Certification of Live Birth is the official birth certificate of Hawaii. It is accepted by the US State Department for issuing passports. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people from Hawaii have used the Certification of Live Birth to get US passports.
As the Wall Street Journal commented: "Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.
The release of the obsolete birth certificate would not “resolve the issue” to those for whom it is not already resolved. They claim without basis that today’s birth certificate is a fake; there is nothing to stop them from claiming without basis that yesterday’s is as well."
Re: "the judge did deny BHO's lawyers to dismiss the case in court. True, he is considering to go forward or not, but I believe it's based more or less on the claim of being denied a fair vote/run at the Presidency."
He made no decision. The decision will be made on the basis of whether he considers that plaintiffs have standing to sue.
Re: "But as far as BHO goes, these records would show more than simply grades."
ReplyDeleteNo they wouldn't. Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. It is impossible for a child to lose US citizenship and that would be required for a person to become a citizen of Indonesia, and by the way Indonesia denies that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia. So no college records could show that he was a citizen of Indonesia, and his Kindergarten records could not show a thing.
However, if Obama or any president were to give up her or his college records or kindergarten records after a lawsuit was filed to get them would mean that future presidents would face such lawsuits and might yield on them. Bad idea. If you feel that the college records of a president should be known by the public, try to pass a federal law making them public.
Re: "Te Certification of Live Birth is the official birth certificate of Hawaii. It is accepted by the US State Department for issuing passports. Hundreds, if not thousands, of people from Hawaii have used the Certification of Live Birth to get US passports."
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. I did a little looking and found this: "According to Hawaii's Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo, the state only issues "certifications" of live births since 2001 when the health department went paperless. It is only available in electronic form, she said."
Well, I guess that is that. However, it makes you wonder why it would not be accepted as a "birth certificate" for some Hawaiian state government eligibility issues - such as the qualifications for the Hawaiian Home Lands program that require a certified copy of a standard birth certificate(long-form). And actually, there is no explanation from Janice Okubo on that matter.
It must also be noted that - the even though U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements." There is no specific rulings, and the Supreme Court has not taken up the issue of whether the certification of live birth would qualify a presidential candidate as eligible under the "natural born citizen" clause.
Found out this little tidbit while looking around - certifications of live birth were widely issued to Hawaiians born in foreign countries in 1961, the year Obama was born. Anywho...
Re: "No they wouldn't. Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia. It is impossible for a child to lose US citizenship and that would be required for a person to become a citizen of Indonesia, and by the way Indonesia denies that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia. So no college records could show that he was a citizen of Indonesia, and his Kindergarten records could not show a thing."
ReplyDeleteThese documents would show what was claimed, who claimed them, the where's and the when's. The who's and the how's. The time-lines are very important. These documents could establish these time-lines.
Re: "However, if Obama or any president were to give up her or his college records or kindergarten records after a lawsuit was filed to get them would mean that future presidents would face such lawsuits and might yield on them. Bad idea. If you feel that the college records of a president should be known by the public, try to pass a federal law making them public."
ReplyDeleteI actually started another post about these issues - http://malchediel.blogspot.com/2009/10/wheres-birth-certificate.html
These issues have been covered by other candidates and Presidents. It just seems that BHO is above such reporting. And he could have avoided the whole lawsuit issue had he just supplied the documents when asked, or not have them covered up when reporters went looking for them.
I honestly believe any rational person would look at what's been going on and walk away thinking, "why won't he just do it? What's to hide?".
But as far as BHO's "certificate of live birth" goes, it's a bit odd when you look at the following - A mother of twins came forward with the "birth certificates" of her daughters that were born around the time BHO was. This is how all three compared ...
ReplyDelete"Susan Nordyke was born at 2:12 p.m. Hawaii time and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10637, which was filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961. Gretchen Nordyke followed at 2:17 p.m. and was given No. 151 – 61 – 10638, which was also filed with the Hawaii registrar Aug. 11, 1961. Obama was given a higher registration number than the Nordyke twins. The online image indicates the number is No. 151 – 1961 – 10641, even though he was born Aug. 4, 1961, the day before the twins, and his birth was registered with the Hawaii registrar three days earlier, Aug. 8, 1961.
The middle figure in Obama's purported registration also is different than the Nordykes'. Obama's is 1961, indicating the year, while the Nordykes' is merely 61. "
I find several things a bit "odd" in the above, don't you?
Re: "Obama was given a higher registration number than the Nordyke twins. The online image indicates the number is No. 151 – 1961 – 10641."
ReplyDeleteThat is the number of the COLB, of course. Who says that COLB numbering relates to the order of birth in Hawaii in 1961? It may simply be the 10,641st COLB issued, and it probably is.
Look, to show that Obama was not born in Hawaii, it is necessary to prove both that Obama was born somewhere else than Hawaii and that all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii was wrong. There is no evidence that he was born anywhere else than Hawaii. His Kenyan grandmother actually said that he was born in Hawaii. This witness recalls being told that he was born in Hawaii (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html). The notices in the newspapers show that he was born in Hawaii (Hawaii did not send out notices for births outside of Hawaii).
Oh and 61 refers to the year of birth as does 1961 in the COLB.
Re: "These issues have been covered by other candidates and Presidents."
ReplyDeleteActually, no. No president has ever shown his birth certificate, much less posting it and showing it to Polifact and FactCheck.
Some presidents have voluntarily shown their grade point averages. Obama, having graduated Magna Com Laude from Harvard Law, figures that showing his grade point average is unnecessary, and besides the campaign is over. He doesn't have to show it now, he is president.
The case against him does not ask for his grade point average. It asks for a college transcript, meaning the grades in every course. NO president has ever shown that, and this is the first time someone is trying to force a president to show his transcript. Since there is no law that says that a president has to show his transcript or for that matter his GPA, this case will lose.
Re: "Found out this little tidbit while looking around - certifications of live birth were widely issued to Hawaiians born in foreign countries in 1961, the year Obama was born. Anywho..."
ReplyDeleteWho says?
Re: "t would not be accepted as a "birth certificate" for some Hawaiian state government
ReplyDeleteeligibility issues - such as the qualifications for the Hawaiian Home Lands program that require a certified copy of a standard birth certificate(long-form). And actually, there is no explanation from Janice Okubo on that matter."
However, DHHL explained it to me. (DHHL is the Department of Hawaiian Homelands, which administers the program).
DHHL said that it has long PREFERRED the original birth certificate, which some people still have because it includes details about the Hawaiian racial background of the applicant. The DHHL program is for native Hawaiians by race.
Some people can provide their original birth certificate to this program because their parents saved it, and they did not lose it. But what about people who did lose their original birth certificate? I pointed this out to DHHL, and said to them that the Department of Health told me repeatedly (and it was also reported in the newspapers) that it no longer sends out copies of the original.
What about people who have lost the copies of the original and still want to apply for the DHHL program. DHHL replied that in that case, it will accept the Certification of Live Birth as proof of birth in Hawaii (which all other departments do) and would attempt to find other information confirming the racial background of the applicant.
Since Obama was not applying for Hawaiian land, and does not need to prove that he is of Hawaiian racial background, all that he requires is proof of birth in Hawaii, which he has. There is the legal proof of the Certification, which is the official birth certificate. There is the confirmation of the two officials. There is the notices in the newspapers, and there is the witness who recalls being told of his birth in Hawaii.
The Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in Hawaii by ALL the departments in Hawaii, and it is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department.
Re: "His Kenyan grandmother actually said that he was born in Hawaii".
ReplyDeleteHis Kenyan grandmother also claimed to be present at his birth..... So, was she in Kenya or Hawaii?
Re: "Who says?"
ReplyDeleteThe state of Hawaii.
Re: "Oh and 61 refers to the year of birth as does 1961 in the COLB."
ReplyDeleteYes, I know, that is why I pointed it out. It seems odd that two births at this time period used the year as "61" and BHO born in the exact same time frame opted for "1961".
Seems, 2 to 1 that the last (year of century, not the entire century) was used during THIS period. But more importantly, how was the "year of birth" used after BHO used? ...
Seems it was the year only and NOT the century included.. So why would HIS say "1961" when those recorded BEFORE and AFTER him say (record) ONLY "61"... ??? That doesn't seem odd to you? What, did they pick him out of a lineup to treat differently? At the very LEAST, you have to say that is odd.
Re: "Obama was born somewhere else than Hawaii and that all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii was wrong. There is no evidence that he was born anywhere else than Hawaii."
ReplyDeleteOk,taking your argument at face value... what does he have to hide? He won't release his "birth certificate" for some reason. He's spent over a million dollars to keep it secret. Why!?
Honestly, if there is nothing to hide, nothing to prove, why spend more than you or I will make in a lifetime to keep it hidden? I for one can think of many uses of that money. I can think of many reasons that that money could serve a purpose and help people.
Why does BHO choose to use that money to keep his birth certificate secret?
Re: "what does he have to hide? He won't release his "birth certificate" for some reason. He's spent over a million dollars to keep it secret. Why!?"
ReplyDeleteBack to that again. First, he has released the official birth certificate and it is the ONLY document that Hawaii sends out. This being the case, it is highly likely that it is the only birth certificate that he has. Yes, his family had the original. Yes, he saw it many years ago, but most likely he lost it--as many people do. We know that he asked for a birth certificate, and Hawaii send him the Certification because that is all that it sends out.
So, what can he show? Only the document that he has.
Second, it is sufficient. It is the official birth certificate. It is the only one that Hawaii sends out. The facts on it were twice confirmed by the officials in Hawaii.
Third, the alleged millions spent. Answer: There hasn't been a lawsuit against Obama that simply asked him to show his birth certificate. All the lawsuits before the election (which were about 3/4 of the cases) were about stopping the election. Most of the lawsuits after the election were about stopping the certification of the election or stopping the Inauguration.
The remaining cases ask for many things including his kindergarten records and his academic records and his housing records while he was at college. Since no one has a right to see those documents, which are protected by privacy laws, Obama is fighting to preserve the right of future presidents to keep such records secret. In any case, he has every right to fight lawsuits, and the lawsuits he is fighting are not primarily about his birth certificate.
So, it is simply crazy to say that Obama is spending "over a million" to keep his birth certificate secret.
He HAS shown his birth certificate. The document that he posted and showed to FactCheck and Polifact is the official birth certificate. No president has ever shown a birth certificate before.
Re: "His Kenyan grandmother also claimed to be present at his birth..... So, was she in Kenya or Hawaii?"
ReplyDeleteNo she didn't say that at all. She said "yes" to a question that could have been mistranslated. BUT when she was asked "Whereabouts was he born?" she said "America, Hawaii."
This can be clearly heard if you listen to the complete recording of the tape, which is on Berg’s site. The complete recording includes a question asking “Whereabouts was he born?” And her answer was: “America, Hawaii.”
Here is the complete recording on Berg’s site. Be sure to listen for at least five minutes until the question is asked. (http://obamacrimes.com/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-08.mp3)
If it is too difficult to listen to the complete tape, here is a transcript (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf).
There have been NO official documents from Kenya (numerous forgeries, however) that say that Obama was born in Kenya, and the only organization to have claimed that there are documents “sealed” in Kenya is WND. Its reports have not been confirmed by anyone. (And it would be easy to confirm because all you have to do is to find out if there are files which area sealed). There are hundreds of journalists in Kenya, and the fact that there were sealed files would be news.
Moreover, IF a child had been born in Kenya and subsequently came to the USA, there would be US documents showing that the trip took place. That is because if a child were born in Kenya, she or he would have to have either a US visa on a British passport or be issued its own US passport while in Kenya. IF either of those took place, there would still be US records in the US embassy in Kenya and in the US State Department in Washington, and they would have been found by now, and they have NOT been found.
All the allegations of Obama’s birth abroad were checked out by the McCain campaign, and they found that there were no facts. No facts at all. (http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors)
It is strange to believe that Obama’s mother even left Hawaii during pregnancy. Pregnant women rarely traveled long distances in 1961 because of the fear of stillbirths. Moreover, in 1961, to travel to Africa
Re: "Moreover, in 1961, to travel to Africa"
ReplyDeleteThat was cut off. The rest reads: "you had to get a Yellow Fever shot, which is very bad during pregnancy."
Good Lord, I must say you have done very thorough homework regarding the matter of BHO's certificate of live birth!
ReplyDeleteI concede the point on that issue. Since Hawaii only has that particular document, it only stands to reason that they can not send out a copy of the birth certificate.
My real issue with the whole thing is not particularly the certificate of live birth, I have read that they started issuing/retaining that document around 2001 or so. I have also read that one can obtain that document with as little as one adult stating the birth took place "there".
I've also read that one may file for it under a "delayed status" ... meaning that if the birth took place elsewhere, an adult could later file claiming the birth was there.
At any rate, I've got to cut this short, but I'll be back later to expand on our discussion. There is more I would like to talk about concerning your recent posts.
But before I go..
Re: "Moreover, in 1961, to travel to Africa"
That was cut off. The rest reads: "you had to get a Yellow Fever shot, which is very bad during pregnancy."
Which I suppose explains why she waited to come to the continental states to go to school. 15 days from birth to class - she's a trooper... I was born in the 60's and my mother wouldn't have been able to start classes within two weeks, much less make a flight like that.
Re: "I have also read that one can obtain that document with as little as one adult stating the birth took place "there". "
ReplyDeleteI have read that this is not true. The PUMA Lori, who did her research in an effort to prove that Obama was not born in Hawaii, wrote: "At the time, if a child was born outside a hospital, the family would have 30 days to apply for a birth certificate and Vital Records would expect to see prenatal care records, or pediatrician records of the first check up, etc. They’d also want the notarized statement from the mid-wife. Of course, they can apply later but that would noted as a different kind of birth certificate."
As you can see, Hawaii wanted some kind of proof. To be sure, IF Obama were born outside of a hospital, the statements of the doctor or midwife would be adequate, but there would have to be some kind of delay, up to 30 days.
BUT we know from the dates of the publication of the notices in the newspapers that there was no significant delay. And this also rules out delayed birth certificates and certificates of Hawaiian birth.
Also, the testimony of the witness tends to confirm that Obama was born in a Hospital, most likely Kapoliani (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html)
Re: "Which I suppose explains why she waited to come to the continental states to go to school. 15 days from birth to class - she's a trooper... I was born in the 60's and my mother wouldn't have been able to start classes within two weeks, much less make a flight like that."
I am not sure what you are referring to. Are you referring to the story going around that she was registered at the University of Washington? That MIGHT be true, but it certainly does not affect the place of birth, and it does not indicate that she actually WENT to the U of Washington in 15 days or 30 or even 90. It only says that she was registered, not that she attended.
Re: "meaning that if the birth took place elsewhere, an adult could later file claiming the birth was there."
If the birth took place outside of Hawaii the registration of that birth in Hawaii was not allowed until 1982. (And even now, Hawaii does not allow the birth certificate to lie about the place of birth.)
Sorry, I forgot the reference to Lori.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2212020/posts
I have been watching you two go back and forth over the issue of the proof of birth of BHO and was just wondering why all of this is so difficult, its not like he is 90 years old and was born in a time of poor record keeping. I am older than him and have had my birth certificate for as long as I can remember, after all it is a quite important document.
ReplyDeleteAh, I'm sorry, I've been battling a cold from heck so my time in here hasn't been as often as I would like. Now on to more pressing matters (heh).
ReplyDeleteAs for the BC. I have mine as well, according to Obama, he has at least seen his (and I would imagine, he would still have the copy around somewhere - it's not like a grocery receipt you just toss anywhere and forget). According to Dr. ChiyomeFukino, the Director of the Hawaii Department of Health he has seen and has on record the original BC (of course, as pointed out below in the various "types", he could be using "double speak" in acknowledging that).
So, what's the problem in showing the original BC? I dunno. Obama knows, but he's not telling.
At any rate, here is some more information about the policies/laws/guidelines/etc of Hawaii in regards to the birth certificate --
In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were four different ways to get an “original birth certificate” on record.
1. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the attending medical professional was required to certify to the Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’ identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
2. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then all that was required was that one of the parents send in a birth certificate to be filed. The birth certificate could be filed by mail. There appears to have been no requirement for the parent to actually physically appear before “the local registrar of the district.” It would have been very easy for a relative to forge an absent parent’s signature to a form and mail it in. In addition, if a claim was made that “neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as above provided is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local registrar shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.” (Section 57-8&9).
3. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by a physician or midwife, then, up to the first birthday of the child, a “Delayed Certificate” could be filed, which required that “a summary statement of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed filing or the alteration [of a file] shall be endorsed on the certificates”, which “evidence shall be kept in a special permanent file.” The statute provided that “the probative value of a ‘delayed’ or ‘altered’ certificate shall be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official before whom the certificate is offered as evidence.” (See Section 57- 9, 18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).”
4. If a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult (including the subject person [i.e. the birth child as an adult]) if the Office of the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961.) In 1955 the “secretary of the Territory” was in charge of this procedure. In 1960 it was transferred to the Office of the Lieutenant Governor (“the lieutenant governor, or his secretary, or such other person as he may designate or appoint from his office” §338-41 [in 1961]).
ReplyDeleteIn 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fifth kind of “original birth certificate”. Under Act 182 H.B. NO. 3016-82, “Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that the proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.” In this way “state policies and procedures” accommodate even “children born out of State” (this is the actual language of Act 182) with an “original birth certificate on record.”
Sections 57-8, 9, 18, 19, 20 & 40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act explain why Obama has refused to release the original vault birth certificate. IF the BC is #1, he could quickly put an end to this whole issue. The FACT that he has not, opens the possibility and the question of "which is it?". It's obviously NOT #1, so that leaves only #2, #3, #4 or possibly #5.
The fact that there are many witnesses to Ann Dunham’s presence on Oahu from Sept 1960 to Feb 1961, but there are no witnesses to her being on Oahu from March 1961 to August 1962 when she returned from Seattle and the University of Washington. No Hawaiian physicians, nurses, or midwives have come forward with any recollection of Barack Obama’s birth. The fact that there is no evidence of the Obama's living at the address indicated in the newspaper announcements. The fact that his grandmother "witnessed his birth" in Kenya, even though it was apparently "corrected" (slip of the tongue is a heck of a thing... how exactly do you "slip" or become "confused" and say you were present at a birth when you weren't??). The fact that the Kenyan Ambassador claims Obama was born there.
The fact that Obama could end all of this but he won't and instead pushes loads of taxpayer money into a lawyer's pocket to fight ending it.
Obama is a Muslim. Obama is not a born citizen of America. His birth certificate and his early (oddly enough sealed as well) records would go far in proving that.
Re: "f a child is born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate was filed before the first birthday."
ReplyDeleteBut we know that Obama's birth was registered on August 8, four days after his birth, and this is confirmed by the announcements in the newspapers one weekend after his birth.
Moreover, we have his confirming evidence to his birth in Hawaii which seems to show that he was born in a hospital (http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/554495.html). So this provision does not apply.
Re: "In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fifth kind of “original birth certificate”. Under Act 182 H.B. NO. 3016-82."
BUT his was twenty-one years after Obama was born.
Re: "It's obviously NOT #1, so that leaves only #2, #3, #4 or possibly #5."
It wasn't any number other than the normal kind in which there is a hospital and a BC is issued.
Then, I am sure you will ask, why doesn't he release it? Because (1) Hawaii only sends out the Certification of Live Birth (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). That being the case, how can he send out something that he does not have?
And (2), IF he could get and send out the original, it would be unnecessary because the document that he has shown and posted is the official birth certificate.
Re taxpayer money. The vast amount was spend by the Obama campaign, and by far most of it was spent fighting lawsuits that tried to stop the election, stop the certification of the election, or stop the Inauguration.
The few remaining cases have asked for such things as Obama's kindergarten records.
Re: "The fact that there is no evidence of the Obama's living at the address indicated in the newspaper announcements."
Big deal. The address given at the time of birth was not the address at which his parents lived after he was born. They got their apartment afterwards. The witness who was quoted said that she knew that the Obama parents did not live at the grandparents' address BECAUSE THEY LIVED ELSEWHERE IN HAWAII.
This does not, of course, affect the fact that he was born in Hawaii.
To show that he was not born in Hawaii, when there is a legal document that says the does, requires both disproving the document and showing that he was born somewhere else. As the National Review said: "The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=&w=MA
Re Muslim. (1) prove it; (2) if he were, he still would have been born in Hawaii.
Re: "and I would imagine, he would still have the copy around somewhere - it's not like a grocery receipt you just toss anywhere and forget."
ReplyDeleteActually, lots of people lose their original birth certificate. I did.
Obama said that as a child he saw a copy of his BC "in an old book." If he left it in that old book, which would be quite normal, it probably was thrown out with other old books.
Re: the four different forms.
ReplyDeleteALL of them except for birth in a hospital required a delay of at least a month and sometimes more than a year. There was no delay in registering Obama's birth (the four days between birth and registration would have been normal), and the fact that there was no delay is confirmed by the notices in the Hawaii newspapers.
Moreover, the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly said that the document that they saw in the file indicates that he was born in Hawaii. (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html). As you can see that is a flat statement. It says that the document means that he was born in Hawaii, not that he could have been born in Hawaii, not that his mother swore to it, not that a delayed certificate said it. No, it says that the original document means that he was born in Hawaii.
And, as I said before, to show that there is anything wrong with this, it is necessary to show both that the Hawaii BC is wrong (not that it could be wrong) and that Obama was born somewhere else than Hawaii.
But the Kenya story is absurd. His Kenyan grandmother did not say that he was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii.
The National Review commented:
ReplyDelete"The fundamental fiction is that Obama has refused to release his “real” birth certificate. This is untrue. The document that Obama has made available is the document that Hawaiian authorities issue when they are asked for a birth certificate. There is no secondary document cloaked in darkness, only the state records that are used to generate birth certificates when they are requested.
If one applies for a United States passport, the passport office will demand a birth certificate. It defines this as an official document bearing “your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.” The Hawaiian birth certificate President Obama has produced—the document is formally known as a “certificate [actually, it is a certification] of live birth”—bears that information. It has been inspected by reporters, and several state officials have confirmed that the information in permanent state records is identical to that on the president’s birth certificate—which is precisely what one expects, of course, since the state records are used to generate those documents when they are requested. In other words, what President Obama has produced is the “real” birth certificate of myth and lore. The director of Hawaii’s health department and the registrar of records each has personally verified that the information on Obama’s birth certificate is identical to that in the state’s records, the so-called vault copy. Given that fact, we are loath even to engage the fanciful notion that President Obama was born elsewhere, contrary to the information on his birth certificate, but we note for the record that his mother was a native of Kansas, whose residents have been citizens of the United States for a very long time, and whose children are citizens of the United States as well.
The attention paid to President Obama’s place of birth is not unprecedented. In fact, it may be the only thing President Obama has in common with Pres. Chester Arthur, whose opponents whispered that he had been born in Canada. A number of unsuccessful presidential candidates—George Romney, Barry Goldwater, and Lowell Weicker among them—actually were born outside of the United States (in Mexico, the Arizona Territory, and Paris, respectively) to American parents and thereby into American citizenship. If the conspiracy theorists have evidence that President Obama went through the naturalization process, let them show it. But there is no such evidence, because this theory is based on unreality, as two minutes’ examining the claims of its proponents reveals. The hallmark of a conspiracy theory is that a lack of evidence for the theory is taken as yet more evidence for the theory. Indeed, the maddening thing about dealing with conspiracy hobbyists of this or any sort is the ever-shifting nature of their argument and their alleged evidence: Never mind the birth certificate, his step-grandmother said he was born in Kenya! (No, she didn’t.)"
The words "no she didn't" are the National Review's, not mine.
To prove it, Obama would have to quit fighting to release his records, which he will not do. He has shown that he will fight to prevent releasing them. Which, folks like yourself are ok with, and within the same breath say, "prove it" or, "there is no proof".
ReplyDeleteCan't really show proof when all the proof is tied up in court.
As for the kindergarten records, one thing that you have to provide a copy of is a birth certificate. Now, during that period, the copy given would have been the birth certificate (not the certificate of live birth). Perhaps that is why he is fighting releasing something as silly as his kindergarten records... ??
Honestly, records from that period in his life would have NO bearing whatsoever on his life now. The ONLY thing it would show would be the birth certificate used to enroll him.
As for the options of regarding his birth certificate....
The statement made by officials in regards to his birth certificate was made during the period that the certificate of live birth was used as the official certificate of Hawaii, not before when the long form would have been used. So, that in itself proves nothing towards this and actually goes towards "fudging". These officials knew what they were referencing was COLB, NOT the birth certificate itself, but they presented it in a manner that would lead one to believe it was the birth certificate and not the COLB.
As for the "born in a hospital"... at the onset, NO ONE associated with Obama could agree on WHICH hospital he was actually born in. He claimed one, then changed his mind on which one, his people claimed one, his sister claimed one, one of the hospitals claimed one.... Now, I ask you, giving you "lost the BC", who doesn't know what hospital they were born in!? Gimmi a break.
Let him open up his kindergarten records, show the copy of the birth certificate on file for registering him. Open up his occidental records, show if he registered as a foreign student. There is so much more to ask about.
Do me a favor. I gave the man the benefit of the doubt when he was running. I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he won, took office, started implementing his policies and placing his hand picked "staffers" (czars)... then I got to actually looking INTO the man. I ask.. simply.. that you do the same. I ask that you ignore you are a democrat and actually open your eyes....
I would like to know more about you, to understand why you defend him so.
Re: "To prove it, Obama would have to quit fighting to release his records, which he will not do. He has shown that he will fight to prevent releasing them. Which, folks like yourself are ok with, and within the same breath say, "prove it" or, "there is no proof".
ReplyDeleteObama HAS shown the official birth certificate of his state. NO other president has shown a birth certificate.
There is no law that says that he has to show the kindergarten records or anything else. If a lawsuit were filed against me asking to see my kindergarten records, or my college records, or anything that I consider private, I would fight it. Not because I have anything to hide, but because I'll be damned if I will give in to someone just because they file a lawsuits. AND, virtually all the lawsuits against Obama were to stop the election or stop the certification of the election or stop the Inauguration.
Re: "show if he registered as a foreign student. "
There is evidence that he was never a citizen of Indonesia. Both the Indonesian government and the US State Department have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.